- Are all mushrooms medicinal?
- How to get started harvesting wild mushrooms (and the dangers to look out for)
- What mycelium is and how it’s different from fruiting bodies
- The difference between tree and ground mushrooms
- Reishi’s negative side effect?!?
- Why hot water extracts are best for the immune system benefits
- The benefits and drawbacks of white button mushrooms
- How fungus fights fungus
- Chaga’s amazing melanin and radiation fighting abilities
- And much more
Click the link below to access the complete transcript.
Logan: Hey, it’s Logan Christopher here along with Zane. Welcome to The Vital Way podcast. This will be another two-part series and we’re going to talk about a subject that is definitely one of my favorites and I believe a big one for Zane as well. We’re going to be talking about medicinal mushrooms. Welcome to the call, Zane.
Zane: Thank you for having me. Interesting plan to have it on the road.
Logan: Yes, because Zane is doing a long cross country drive. Where are you located right now?
Zane: I am in Tennessee about to cross over into Virginia on my way to Vermont from Southern California.
Logan: The question is have you spotted any medicinal mushrooms along the way?
Zane: You know what, I actually haven’t had a chance to really step out of the car. I’ve been driving so much. I would totally like to look. I’m in the middle of the Appalachian Mountains and there’s a lot of rotting logs around here.
Logan: Yeah, they’re definitely not something that’s easy to see from the side of the road. Well in some parts, they definitely hang out around there but they’re not the easiest to spot things.
Zane: Yeah, but also they do like human debris and a lot of stuff has cleared so there’s actually more around here than there normally would be probably.
Logan: All right. Well, before we talk about spotting them, everything, we should probably give sort of an intro to the term “medicinal mushroom.” That’s not something that most people have heard of. Most people are aware and people eat mushrooms but there are common ones that are used for cooking like the white button mushroom, portabella and those definitely have medicinal compounds in them. In fact, I’d say most of the mushrooms that get eaten would definitely have some medicinal components but in the old traditions like Ayurveda, especially Chinese medicine, there are a number of different mushrooms really belong at the top of the class of herbs because they have such potent medicinal qualities.
Zane: Yeah, and those one aren’t commonly eaten as much even if they could.
Logan: Some of them you can’t eat. The most classic medicinal mushroom would be reishi, Ganoderma lucidum, also lingzhi, a few other names I’m sure, like the mushroom of immortality, God’s herb, all kinds of things. This is such a famous one in Chinese medicine that it adorns tons of their religious artwork, found all in temples and everything like that. And it’s a real woody mushroom. You can’t actually eat it because it’d be like eating wood so it needs to be processed in some way, most traditionally made in your teas.
Zane: You would break your teeth on that one.
Zane: There are like 250,000 compounds in it and it’s supposedly one of the most studied medicinal mushrooms. Am I right?
Logan: Yeah, I’m not sure if it actually is the top. I believe it is. I’ve heard that before but they’re always doing more studies so maybe something has surpassed it. But most of this research has been done in the east where this has been revered for thousands of years and a lot less so over here in the west. So definitely there are some out there but not as many human studies, I’d say, more rat or in vitro or that type of thing.
Zane: Yeah. It’s hard to study some of the effects of the reishi. There are obviously all the health benefits that come about from consuming reishi that we would be aware of in the west, anti-inflammatory, modulating your immune system, all that stuff but there’s a lot of spiritual energies that that mushroom possesses that definitely you tap into your own energy and it helps it in so many ways.
Logan: Right. If we talk about the three treasure system from Chinese medicine, there’s Ching, Chi and Shen, reishi is a very good Chi tonic so it’s good for the energy and that goes along with the immune system modulation. But it’s also one of the top Shen tonics and most notably—this really made sense to me when I started collecting mushrooms—wild reishis have far more Shen than anything cultivated. Well, with Shen we have kind of different types of Shen herbs. We have those that stabilize so it’s good for mood and helping with anxiety and that sort of thing. I’d say any type of reishi is going to be pretty good at that but really sort of the uplifting Shen is where it really expands your spirit, that’s going to be even more so from the wild reishi. When you have something rare and wild like that, I kind of think that in terms of it has a special intelligence itself and it’s able to impart some of that wisdom to you.
Zane: Yeah, it’s like it gathers the wisdom of the forests, being amongst that instead of being grown amongst its own kind in rice paddies. It’s kind of like humans in the city and countryside. Which will usually be healthier and more practical knowledge? It would be the rural people as opposed to ones all clustered in the city.
Logan: Yeah, it’s interesting just going out and searching for mushrooms and you realize something. Recently, I’ve been starting to get into mushrooms but it’s definitely sort of a slow process but just briefly here in Santa Cruz we had huge torrential rains after like months long of a drought and everything and mushrooms just sprouted up out of the ground everywhere. I was talking about driving and seeing them. I could easily see them on the sides of the road and everywhere. But as quickly as they’d sprout up, they can often disappear but reishi and some of the other tree mushrooms, these things can be around for many years. Some can go decades-long so it’s interesting, different sorts of energy that you have something that could stick around for that long versus something that’s very quick-lived.
Zane: Do you know if they actually go dormant during that time when it’s particularly bad?
Logan: Well, you have to think what we call the mushroom is just the fruiting body. It’s actually basically the sexual organ of the mushroom. That’s coming out so that it can sporulate and then reproduce and all that. But the mycelium, whether that is inside of a dying log where a lot of these medicinal mushrooms grow or it’s in the ground, that’s staying there the whole time. So yeah, dormant in that sense that it’s all there the whole time. It doesn’t disappear and come back.
Zane: And the mycelium is the main body that is the actual organism whereas the mushroom terminology is basically like the vagina and penis.
Logan: Yeah. But it is the same sort of stuff and I believe when we got back just in a couple of weeks ago, both Zane and I were at the Fungus Fair and we did a pretty extensive article showcasing some of the things from that on the Super Man Herbs.com site. One thing that you could either sort of debate, what’s better, mycelium and fruiting body, and there are different concentrations of things but the fruiting body is all mycelium. It’s just being bound together in a certain way in order to produce that and the only thing that’s really different is kind of I believe where it spores, if I remember what Zack Mazi said correctly. So it’s just interesting, the different things and there are going to be some different benefits to these and I’m sure we’ll talk about that, water extracts, alcohol extracts, different compounds, the mycelium versus the fruiting body.
Zane: Yeah, my understanding of one of the differences is that there are actually more polysaccharides in the fruiting bodies, I believe, than in the mycelia because they’re actually in the cell walls of the mushrooms and so they actually help keep it hard.
Logan: Interesting. Yeah, and medicinal.
Zane: I learned some stuff recently. Before the reishi, for instance, there’s not really a difference if we consume the—actually, I have a question. Do you know what the difference is between reishi spore oil and consuming just a reishi extract or a tincture?
Logan: According to a book, I’ve heard the reishi spores themselves, a mushroom is in some ways similar to the plant kingdom, in some ways it’s actually similar to us. I think I’ll go and get some of the details on that. Realize that the fungal kingdom of which these mushrooms use and everything, it’s a kingdom separate from plants and animals so it has some differences from both of them but also some similarities. It produces a fruiting body in order for it to spread its seed out there. The fruiting body, the spores are going to typically form underneath and then blow away in the wind or something along those lines.
The spores are actually interesting things themselves. They found spores from mushrooms in space. They’re able to escape and live in no atmosphere at all and travel because it has a thick cell and is able to get there. So there are actually some theories that mushrooms are aliens. They typically could have traveled from other planets and if they can actually survive in the vacuum of space that just may be how mushrooms originally got on this planet. Who knows whether that’s true but they found them in space, they found them on the highest mountain tops, all kinds of things. So spores are very interesting things themselves.
When it comes to the reishi, they go through like a cell wall vibration type thing to crack them but these are said to be ten times as potent a medicine as the reishi extract itself. Then the reishi spore oil, somehow they extract just the oil fraction from that. That is 100 times more powerful as the reishi extract for the immune system. How accurate those actual numbers are, I’m not sure where exactly they got those but that’s what I’ve heard.
Zane: Wow, that’s really intense. I don’t know why I’m not on any spore oil.
Logan: It’s very expensive stuff. That would be one reason. I remember it was like $55 a bottle.
Zane: Yeah, we just talked about that but—
Logan: Yeah, we definitely could do that. If people are interested, let us know. Anything we talk about, we talk about a lot of things that we don’t carry, just let us know if you’re interested and we’ll see if we can pull it together assuming there’s enough general interest. So you’ve got spores, oil or the spores themselves. That would be one direction we could go.
Zane: Well, that’s interesting because I’ve never seen any other type of mushroom spore product.
Logan: Actually, that’s a very good point.
Zane: I was wondering it’s only reishi and I’m just wondering if it’s like a processing thing you do with the reishi or something.
Logan: If it’s good for reishi, here’s the thing. Reishi is great with the immune system but basically all the mushrooms help with the immune system. When I say all, I wouldn’t say every mushroom out there. Obviously, there are some poisonous ones and that sort of thing. There are probably ones that aren’t but as far as medicinal mushrooms and even the culinary ones, I’m pretty sure everything seems to have some health/immune system sort of benefits, some of which are likely much better in others. Since reishi has done all this research, my guess is that they decided to investigate the spores and found those sort of properties. So yeah, maybe with other mushrooms, I don’t see why only reishi spores would be good and nothing else would be for the same purpose.
Zane: We’ll have to figure that out and get back to you all.
Logan: Yeah. Because I’ve seen mushrooms that have just spored and it’s weird. It’ll be like this dust or this color like reddish brown depending on what type of spore but just covering the area so the next time I’ll have to just take some of those spores and see what happens.
Zane: Make sure it’s not a poisonous mushroom though.
Logan: Yeah, let’s mention something about this right now. Several years ago when I first got interested in medicinal mushrooms, I had heard about it a little bit from a couple of people that had taken some reishi products, cordyceps, that sort of thing. But as far as like going out there and finding them, it was after hearing a speech from Paul Stamets that I really was like I want to learn more about these things. So if you go out and look for them, yes, there are some mushrooms that if you eat one of them you will die.
So the first advice would be if you plan to do anything like this, find out what those look like or what looks similar to them. But the cool thing about the medicinal mushrooms is most of them, not all of them but most of them, grow on dead logs or grow on living trees—some of them do that as well—as opposed to growing on the ground. Ground mushrooms, while there are some medicinal ones and there are some great culinary ones, there are also the deadly ones there. When it comes to mushrooms that grow on trees whether living or dead, there aren’t any poisonous ones except for one which glows in the dark so it’s pretty easy to tell. It’s called the jack-o’-lantern. I’ve never seen that one around here but if you’re looking at tree mushrooms, it is far more of a safe game to play. That being said, I still recommend you do some research, talk to some people that know what they’re talking about and find out the stuff before getting started in this process.
Zane: Yeah, for sure. That’s pretty advisable. I was wondering is that one without gills because I heard that if you go for the tree mushrooms if they’re polypores, in general you’re almost 100% certain that they’re safe to consume.
Logan: Yes. Let’s describe that term “polypore,” what that means. That’s another thing here around the tree mushrooms. “Poly” means many and “pore” is actually like a pore. So if you look at a mushroom that’s growing, whether it’s on a tree or a ground, you have the top of the mushroom and if you look underneath it there are quite a few different types. Some mushrooms have gills. If you think about portabella mushroom, that’s a pretty common one that most people have seen, there’s a bunch of gills on that. Some mushrooms are like that. Other ones have pores and then for the certain polypores, there’s a bunch of tiny dots like this and that’s where the spores come out of. So yeah, any tree mushroom that’s a polypore because there are some tree grilled ones of which the jack-o’-lantern is one then you’ll be safe with that. But it also glows in the dark.
Zane: Okay. So just wait till nightfall before you touch it. Awesome. All right, well is there anything else we need to say about reishi because there are a lot of mushrooms we can go through?
Logan: Maybe we could do the whole podcast just on reishi.
Logan: Here’s something interesting and I do plan to do an article on this later. It’s some bad news about reishi. I’ve still got to do some investigation on this but I actually came across something that may not be the best ever, especially for a lot of the people that are interested in the stuff on our site. Are you ready?
Zane: I’m ready.
Logan: They investigated like 17 different mushrooms and found that reishi was the strongest one at reducing 5-α reductase enzyme activity. Are you familiar with what it does?
Zane: Remind me. I know what you’re talking about.
Logan: 5-α reductase is the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT. We people we have lots of information on that on the site and some of our top herbs have to do with that. DHT, dihydrotestosterone, is basically, depending on who you ask, 10 to 50 times as potent of an androgen as testosterone so everything that people claim testosterone gives you, DHT is probably responsible for that at least in a big part. DHT can’t be aromatized. That’s another benefit of it so as far as being lean and feeling great, it’s really a huge, important hormone. The thing is it’s been implicated, though this doesn’t seem to be actually be a very true or recent research has said that it really has to do with high estrogen levels, more on that, but in prostate problems and prostate cancer. A lot of herbs have been noted for their ability to reduce DHT, some common ones being saw palmetto but reishi also seems to do this. So in those cases, it could be useful. It’s also implicated in male pattern baldness which is interesting.
But in general for people that are looking to be healthy, I’d say that reducing 5-α reductase is not something that you want to do regularly. Reishi may have some issues with this. Once again, I’m going to do a lot more research and find out what I can about it. One thing I do know at this point is the alcohol extract is where they seem to get concentrated whereas the water extract is not.
Zane: That’s really good to know.
Logan: It was with gamma amino butyric acids within the reishi mushrooms, if I remember correctly.
Zane: That’s interesting. I’m wondering. Do you know if the monks and Buddhists that were using reishi to improve their meditation and stuff like, they wouldn’t be probably be tincturing this stuff, right?
Logan: Well, here’s one thing to think about when you think about alcohol. This really wasn’t distilled and isolated in its form for such a long, long time. I believe only maybe 500 years ago, possibly they were doing this in some places long ago that we don’t know about but as far as we know distillation of alcohol is a very recent thing.
Zane: Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Logan: If we’re going back in time, it has always been tea extracts of everything. And even activity like this, I haven’t seen all the details on this or how strong it is because they compared to other mushrooms and reishi had the strongest but was it strong compared to other herbs or whatnot? I don’t have the full details on this yet.
Zane: Are you taking an alcohol extract of reishi?
Logan: No, I’m not. We don’t have that available. I do the water extract.
Zane: Yeah, there’s the water extract.
Logan: And we pretty much only take our herbs these days anyway.
Zane: Yup, we do. But you were saying that they find out it’s pulled out in the alcohol usually?
Logan: Yeah, some lit I’ve looked at that’s what I saw. But like I said, I’ve more investigation to do and we’ll do an article on that for sure in the future because I was like this is interesting. I’ve got to see what’s up with it.
Zane: Well yeah, I would like to have dual extracted tinctures of our mushrooms just get to both side of the equation but that’s definitely interesting to know.
Logan: Let’s talk a little bit about that. With water extracts which are a little bit more common, and I’d say this is probably true with many mushroom products on the market and some of the stuff we have, it’s the mycelium. How do they actually get this? In nature, you can’t really generally get the mycelium because the mycelium is underground or it’s in the tree itself. So you don’t really eat the mycelium. You’re getting the fruiting body. But as they grow this stuff in laboratories which is pretty easy to do and have some benefits that it’s generally a lot more economical, they grow it on substrate, generally some sort of grain type of product.
Zane: It’s usually rice, sorghum.
Logan: Yeah, ours are grown on sorghum which is gluten-free grain but yeah, you can use different things. Some mushrooms prefer certain grains over others but it’s grown on this grain to the point where the mycelium, the fungus, it basically uses all of the grain as its fuel and it eats it all up.
Zane: And so the mycelium is all that’s left over.
Logan: Yeah, there should be no grain left really. It has all become mycelium although of course depending on what it grows on, it is definitely going to change out the product in some ways because of what’s available and everything. So it takes it all over and it generally then has fruiting bodies. But because it’s not trapped within wood or mixed into the dirt, they can take this mycelium and the fruiting body and grind it all together. Then it’s digestible. It’s usable in this form as opposed to if you have these woody mushrooms like reishi and you find one in the forest, you can’t just eat that. Even if you grind it up into a powder, your body is not going to be able to digest that just because it’s way too fibrous. So it needs to be extracted in some way which is done through hot water and making it a strong tea.
Zane: That’s the tea. It’s because the cell walls are made out of chitin and our body can’t actually digest that chitin. So you need the hot water or the alcohol to break that down.
Logan: Right, the alcohol being the other way. I don’t think the alcohol actually breaks it down versus it just pulls it out.
Zane: It just pulls it out? Okay, that makes more sense.
Logan: Here’s the thing about it. With the hot water extract, you’re going to draw more of certain compounds out and not necessarily others. With alcohol, the reverse is true. You’re going to draw more of certain compounds out but not others. One example with the mushrooms, the polysaccharides, β-glutans, some different other things, these are much more concentrated in hot water extracts. They’re able to pull it out. So for the immune system benefits, some sort of hot water extract is going to be the best way to get that from the mushrooms whereas other components can be better drawn out through the alcohol.
Zane: Yeah, I was listening and heard with the alcohol, you’re actually pulling out more of the antibiotic, antifungal stuff as opposed to the water extract, you’re pulling out those long-chained sugars, polysaccharides and those are the things that help modulate your immune system. So when you do a dual extract, the polysaccharides don’t actually last that long because the alcohol eventually breaks them down. I think that’s why they don’t sell them on store shelves because some stuff won’t even last six months. If you want those immune-modulating benefits with the other benefits, you’ve got to consume the dual extract pretty fast. I’ve actually only seen one dual extract on the market at Surthrival that I know of so I was wondering what their shelf lives were. I just learned that today. I’m wondering about their shelf lives. That could be the reason why no one does alcohol extraction.
Logan: Interesting. Well, people do alcohol extracts but not necessarily dual extracts, right?
Zane: Yeah, and that’s the only dual extract I know of.
Logan: Right. Well, you mentioned those antiviral, antibacterial components. Some mushrooms have these, some more than others. It’s interesting if you see this idea if you had like Candida which is a problem a lot of people suffer with, you don’t want to eat mushrooms because a fungus is going to feed fungus but that’s not necessarily true. In fact, reishi is a great anti-Candida type you can be taking, shiitake as well. It’s interesting that these mushrooms can actually have anti-fungal components so even other funguses themselves are able to fight off certain other ones including some of these bad things that we generally don’t want to get.
Zane: Well, I had heard that the reishi and shiitake, if you put them on a log, that log will never get a Candida infection. It’s that powerful.
Logan: Do logs get Candida?
Zane: Yeah, Candida is not just in your body. It’s out there. The other thing I learned is that if you do have Candida problems and they say stay away from mushrooms, there’s a reason why. You should probably stay away from the Agaricus family because that seems to promote Candida actually. It’s a little mushroom.
Logan: Right, the white button mushroom is Agaricus bisporus, the common one. They slice it up and put it on pizza. It’s sold in most stores. That one does have some interesting benefits by itself. Let me mention why I think that’s the case. A lot of these commercial mushrooms that you’ll find, it’s probably not a problem with the mushroom with itself but it is maybe not necessarily one of the anti-fungal ones so they can have these micro toxins, micro-fungal components on them that can exacerbate those sorts of problems you were talking about. I’ve heard that’s a big issue with a lot of the commercial mushrooms that are sold in stores so yeah, that may be something. But the white button mushroom, one thing that’s very interesting about it, it has a couple of components that help limit aromatization.
Zane: Oh yeah?
Logan: Yeah. The common white button mushroom, this is something that will stop your testosterone from converting over into estrogen.
Zane: This is for cooked ones, right, because raw, you can’t actually get that certain element through the cell wall if they’re raw?
Logan: Yeah, I’m not sure why. I can’t remember off the top of my head. Anyway, it’s phenol A or something like that. I’m not sure what sort of compound it is in there but yeah, you mentioned that. In most cases, while there do seem to be some mushrooms you can ingest and you can get some benefit from raw, because they all have this fiber-y chitin—however it’s actually pronounced—these are much better to eat cooked because it’s going to break it down. Basically, most food is more digestible cooked, not all of it but definitely mushrooms would be one of the things that fit into this category.
Zane: Yeah, for sure. Well, that’s the button mushroom. That includes crimini mushrooms, too, which are basically baby portabellas. Both of those are really high in antioxidants also. Actually, a lot of mushrooms have a lot of antioxidant capabilities. Some are just better than others at that. Where do you want to go next?
Logan: Well, let’s talk about chaga. That’s an interesting one.
Zane: Chaga, you can eat that one raw.
Logan: Well, here’s an interesting thing about chaga when you actually see this, it most commonly grows on birch trees but it does grow on other trees as well. It’s this big, black mass. It definitely has like some orange colors, typically on the inside. So it grows on these trees but that’s not the fruiting body. Actually in this mushroom, for whatever reason, that is mycelium that grows on the outside and the fruiting body only appears very rapidly and it spores out. For some reason, the chaga grows its mycelium on the outside. I believe it’s also in the trees but that’s something interesting about it. That may be one reason that this is something that can be consumed raw though going back in time, this was a big one of the Siberian shamans. It still was always made into a tea, I believe pretty much all the time. It’s also used topically, different things like this.
Zane: Well, it’s pretty woody. I’ve had a raw spoonful. It’s not that fun. It’s just better in a tea for sure but I did not know that. That’s pretty gnarly, actually. Maybe that’s part of the reason why they call it the King of the Mushrooms.
Logan: Yeah. As I said, it has a huge one in Siberian shamanism. This one also grows in the Northeastern United States, across Canada, sort of that band across the top region of the world. I’ve never personally found this one but I’d definitely like to.
Zane: We actually source ours from—the wild stuff we have sometimes have we get from Minnesota. It actually grows there on birch trees as well.
Logan: Yeah, that would be about right, right near the top in the border of the Canada and the US. Unfortunately, we ran out of it for a little while because when it’s a wild product you can’t just always get it.
Zane: Yeah, which is a bummer because the cultivated does not have as much good stuff in it, especially melanin, that wild chaga does. You can actually tell that our cultivated stuff is not as dark as when we have wild stuff. That has a lot to do with the melanin content. Why does it have melanin, Logan?
Logan: I don’t know if I can tell you why but we should mention what melanin is if people aren’t familiar with that. Melanin is the compound we have in our skin that basically gives us our skin color. It’s found within these chaga mushrooms as well. I believe it actually concentrates melanin from the trees that it’s in. I’d have to brush up on my chaga research but it’s very interesting.
Zane: It concentrates an acid from the tree actually. I’m not sure about the melanin but because you told me it was mycelium, I’m thinking that it needs to actually protect itself from ultraviolet light.
Logan: Yes, that could definitely be it. Here’s an interesting thing about mushrooms. Some of them produce vitamin D in much the same way that we do. If you take shiitake mushrooms—this has been studied and verified that this is the case; my guess is it happens with some of the mushrooms as well—if you take dried ones or fresh ones and put them outside, flip them up so their gills are facing up and let them dry out there, these mushrooms will create vitamin D in them just like we do, just taking the sunlight and transferring it over. That’s one of the things that they have in common with us. My guess is that yeah, it does look like chaga does have vitamin D in it so it is probably doing the same thing right there and that melanin is likely somewhere in play along with it.
Zane: Man, I just learned so much about chaga. I watched that one we posted and there’s so much information. It’s pretty amazing. Everyone should check it out. You will just be—
Logan: That video?
Zane: That video, yeah.
Logan: Right, back in our blog in our archives, if you type in “chaga video” on our site, you’ll be able to see it. It’s like an hour-long video all about the amazing benefits on it.
Zane: You should put it down in the show notes for this one.
Logan: Yeah, I can do that.
Zane: That was pretty good. It goes into depth on the main benefits of chaga and chaga has a lot of stuff that no other mushroom has. The high melanin is just super important for everyone plus it can act as an internal sunscreen.
Logan: Apparently, it has 25 to 50 times the superoxide dismutase as any other medicinal mushroom and that’s a very potent antioxidant. This seems to be one of the probably strongest antioxidant mushrooms that there is. One of the amazing things about chaga is that it was approved as a drug for cancer in Russia, obviously not over here in the US. That’s avoided completely because it’s not verified to do anything like that but they used it often in combination with things like chemotherapy. Not only did they have overall better success rates with the patients but the chaga seemed to help mitigate a lot of the side effects that occurred with radiation, chemotherapy and that sort of thing. It’s just something to keep in mind.
Zane: Yeah, and just to note, I think part of the reason why it’s so good with chemo and radiation is betulinic acid. It actually absorbs it and concentrates it from the birch tree itself. So it’s coming from the birch tree but you can’t just eat birch bark. You’d have to eat a lot to get the same amount you would in just a little bit of chaga. That acid actually prevents the DNA from unwrapping. If you get damage to your DNA itself, it’s going to unwrap and that’s when the damage can occur. So this stuff will actually keep your DNA wrapped up so that no damage can occur.
Logan: Like I’m saying, it probably helps with the chemo and radiation because while those are targeted at the cancers, there’s collateral damage at the same time which unfortunately can start this DNA damage process and may lead to cancer down the road.
Zane: Right. Just throw fuel on your fire.