After wrapping up his sedentary responsibilities as a student Michael Dally committed to a career, free of degenerative work environments. After graduating with a degree in Mechanical Engineering from San Diego State University he took a year off in pursuit of a vision. It was during this time that he received the inspiration to develop Earth Runners from the the Tarahumara Native American Indians of Northwestern Mexico. Since its launch in 2012 Earth Runners has been leaving its footprint in the minimalist footwear marketplace.
- The Benefits of Earthing or Grounding
- Why Surface Area an Conductivity Matter
- The Most Grounding Activity there is!
- How to Fix Your Circadian Rhythm
- The Differences Between Indoor and Outdoor Earthing
- Dysafferentation.. or how it’s “Use it or Lose it” with the feet
- Avoiding Plantar Fasciitis and Tendonitis
- A DIY Kit for Earthing any shoe!
- And Much More
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Click the link below to access the complete transcript.
Logan: Welcome to The Vital Way podcast. I’m Logan Christopher from Lost Empire Herbs and today we’re talking about a fun subject that not a lot of people know about. Not a lot of people are aware of the health benefits of actually getting connected to the earth, like touching skin to bare earth so we’re going to be talking a lot about that, also minimalist shoes and why shoes are a bad thing and why you might want to get something besides the normal shoes, which in a way are kind of like casts for your feet which cause atrophy and block this connection from earth. Joining me today is Mike Dally from Earth Runners. Thanks for joining me, Mike.
Mike: My pleasure.
Logan: All right. So I have just recently heard about Earth Runners and we’ll be specifically talking about some of the details in that but first I want to talk about just covering the benefits of grounding or earthing because most people haven’t heard of this. So Mike, how did you first get into this subject and then where did it take you from there?
Mike: So back in 2012, I graduated college at San Diego State studying engineering and it was like a very sedentary state as a student where I was kind of taking my creative mindset and trying to kind of compete with like calculator brains. So it was like a victory in itself to graduate with that and then after I graduated I really needed to take like a year off and just kind of soul search and kind of figure out what I wanted to do with my career. And so I did a lot of camping and I was doing a lot of trail running which is just kind of like the things that I loved to do. I’ve always kind of loved that. I was a big soccer player growing up so like outdoor activities were a big part of who I was growing up. And started going more and more minimalist like throughout college I was wearing Nike Freeze and then as I graduated, like the whole running sandals were coming up in the industry and the Five Fingers. So I started experimenting with that more and more. Alongside those experiments, I was also reading the new book, Earthing by Clinton Ober where they talk about the benefits of earthing.
For me, it was kind of like a big, intuitive hit where I was just like this explains the well-being and the relief that I get when I spend like long, extended periods of time out in nature. It’s just like this relief and like this just clarity. So I myself had been, the experimental mind that I am, I was like oh, I’ve got to test this and try and like isolate the variables. So the big thing that they talk about in that book is the idea of sleeping grounded which is basically like a conductive bed sheet or a strap or something that you sleep with and then it connects to a wire that runs out of your window into a stake in the ground. I thought that would be a good way to kind of test this technology. Me myself, I experienced pretty remarkable results like deeper sleep, faster recovery and better sleep economy. I felt I didn’t need to sleep as much so I was pretty sold on that.
I was like well, what’s like the biggest missing component to like being able to do this more in our lives and it seemed like footwear because that’s the biggest interference that we kind of experience as modern humans. We have these insulated shoes and I was like there’s not a lot of people really offering footwear out there that allows you to kind of venture out into nature where you really want to connect and remain connected to the earth. So I started experimenting with the idea of running sandals which are the whole idea of trying to create less of a barrier between you and the earth, more from like a biomechanical standpoint and then I added in the electrical components to that by adding different ways of conductors through the sole or through the laces and the rest is history.
Logan: Right. Most people don’t realize that really what’s happening, what’s giving these benefits in your sleep or otherwise is there is an electrical connection between you and the earth and rubber just stops that completely. Now rubber in shoes is great for the whole protection element which is I’d say probably the main reason that we wear shoes besides fashion I guess. A lot of people wear shoes for that reason, for that protection element, rubber is great for that. Unfortunately, it has the insulating effect that completely blocks that electrical connection, right?
Logan: So how do you make it conductive from the ground? The Earth Runners, we’ll talk about these and there are a few other grounded or earth shoes out there or sandals but how is it made conductive so that you still have that protection in addition to getting the benefits of being electrically connected?
Mike: Yeah, so I think the name itself, Earth Runners, the design was inspired by this ancient huarache design of like native tribes around the world. Different parts of the world kind of came to a similar design of like single lace binding your foot to a sole and that is basically just creating like a minimal platform for your foot to sit on. And then we added in different electrical avenues for the conductivity to come up. We originally started with copper inserts through the sole which is kind of a more primitive way of doing it and not very repeatable and we’ve kind of transitioned away from that. We found it more effective and also something that’s a little bit more streamlined in regards to manufacturing this through the laces themselves. We have conductive thread that wraps up the entire length of the lace and basically turns the lace into a circuit and that contacts your foot and connects through your sole on the bottom and there’s the copper plug where the laces go through the sole and that prevents the laces from pulling through the bottom.
So I like to think of it as a simple and pretty elegant way. It works really well. We’ve done comparisons of being barefoot on the earth versus wearing our sandals and with just the conductive laces, it’s about 90% to 95% as effective as getting a barefoot grounded experience. So pretty happy with those results and the testimonials support that as well.
Logan: Yeah, I was just looking at your YouTube channel and you have some cool videos on them showing and the main difference or there’s only slight difference but that’s just because of the surface area that’s contacting the ground. Is that correct?
Mike: Yeah, exactly. Think about the skin. The skin is not quite as conductive as metal or wire or water so the more surface area you can create between your skin and the grounded conductive surface is going to result in more electron transfer and better grounding results. So yeah, you’re right on with that.
Logan: So is this also why some people are recommending like if you can go out in grass when it’s wet in the morning with dew, that moisture is going to increase the conductivity as well?
Mike: Yeah, certainly. And then also aside from that, that’s a really accessible way to kind of talk about it before or like after a rain and going out and heading on the trail, I’d describe that experience as an electrical experience. The whole surface is super conductive or when you’re on a hike, you’re walking through like a dry trail and you get down to the creek, it’s just like things, there are different experiences to be had in those areas.
Logan: Right. So the actual ground itself depending on how moist or dry it is, that’s also going to impact conductivity?
Mike: Exactly. Yes.
Logan: Okay, that’s very cool. And it also makes sense that like I’ve actually just been kind of having images like I need to go bury myself. Fortunately, I live pretty close to the beach so that’s somewhere that can happen. Then you’d really be if you were fully buried, let’s just say your head out of there so you can breathe but if you’re fully buried then your entire body would be maximizing all that surface area. And I’ve actually heard some stories of people doing this in some ancient practices where they’d leave you completely buried for a while for the earth to kind of draw out whatever disease you may have. Have you done anything along those lines?
Mike: I haven’t done anything too much like that but the idea that I got when you were describing that is just being in the ocean. That’s the more grounding activity out there and aside from that you’re getting like the negative ions off the waves crashing on the sea shore. You’re getting the mineral content from the water like absorbing it into your skin. So it’s one of the healthiest environments you can kind of hang out in.
Logan: Excellent. So you mentioned some of the benefits when you were talking about sleeping. So it improves your sleep quality, allows for deeper sleep, actually also aids in recovery like anyone doing any sort of physical training, this is definitely something they’d want to pay attention to. And there is some research been coming out on that. Any other light you can shed on those details on how it is working along these lines?
Mike: Yeah, basically the thesis in the Earthing Book is that when you ground more often than not or if you just ground more so the benefits that you’re going to get is going to help normalize your circadian rhythm. Your circadian rhythm is basically your biochemical reactions tied in with the 24-hour cycle of the earth’s rotation and the more in line we are with that circadian rhythm, the more on point our biochemistry is going to be. So basically it helps normalize our circadian rhythm and then what that does is basically normalizes our biochemical makeup of our body and that’s going to manifest in many different ways from like anti-inflammatory, deeper sleep, more dream recall. A lot of people have more lucid dreams. Like I was saying, the sleep economy, you kind of just pop up a little bit earlier than I would say if you were sleeping not grounded and you’re just kind of ready to go in the morning, then the anti-inflammatory recovery.
The best way to kind of tie this in with people who kind of have a weird reaction to the idea of like wires or sleeping on conductive bed sheets, I’m just like it’s basically like sleeping in a campsite because in a campsite, there’s very little between you and the earth and the closer you are to the earth, the more grounded you’re going to be. The radiation increases dramatically the further you get away from the earth. So I would say that’s very close to what it’s like, sleeping grounded. If you were to add in like a conductive route between your skin and the skin of the earth, it will probably enhanced slightly but it’s very similar to the experience of sleeping in a campsite.
Logan: Right. I’m curious. In doing the grounding, what’s often recommended is they have these devices that plug into the grounded outlet within a wall outlet. I was playing around with that for a while and it seemed like some things are not properly grounded like I’d feel like I didn’t get the effects of earthing. You can begin to feel these benefits once you’re used to them in a little while and instead there’d be like a tingly if I was using an arm band or something like that. What’s your experience with that? And in looking at some of your videos, you were talking about the difference between the grounded outlet and actually running a rod outside in the ground and using that to connect to your bed surface.
Mike: Yeah. I’m glad you brought this up. It’s honestly a pretty controversial topic. I basically divide earthing into two categories. You’ve got earthing indoors and you’ve got earthing outdoors. Earthing outdoors usually happens either in your backyard or on a trail or on a beach and that in my mind always makes sense. But as far as indoors, there’s a sticky territory. For one, plugging into the outlet you’re relying on the wiring, the circuitry of your house. Who knows when that was done and if it was done right? So that’s a variable that I personally don’t really like to play with and that’s why I’ve always encouraged people if they are doing to earth or ground themselves inside to run their own ground wire basically out a window, out a door to a stake in the ground so they’re bypassing the circuitry of the house.
And then aside from that, there’s also talk about stray electricity in the ground in certain areas that you might not want to sync up with. Let’s say you’re in a super populated area or industrial area, the electricity is circulating through the earth in these areas through our grid system. I’ve had experiences where I was grounding through a stake in an area like I just described and did not get favorable results. So I don’t think it’s always good to ground indoors. It’s kind of like a case by case basis and it’s not very black or white. It’s kind of a sticky territory to navigate.
Logan: Very cool. So would that be the same case for wearing grounded shoes if you were in that industrial area? I’ve heard that concrete is conductive whereas asphalt is not. I don’t know if you’ve heard the same thing or if that’s your opinion on that as well But if you were in one of these industrial areas where maybe there is some bad electricity going through the earth, might having earth shoes at that point not be beneficial?
Mike: Yeah, I would say so. It’s the idea of the effectiveness is in the dose. It’s like if you were walking through an industrial area and on your way to the beach, I wouldn’t be concerned on it. If you were working in an industrial area all day hanging out, I will be like you might insulate yourself from all that stray electricity. That’s my thought process there. It’s like for us, most of the time with Earth Runners it’s like a return to nature type of lifestyle where we’re trying to get people outside, more go out on walks, go out on hikes, go out on adventures and just get outside of their dwelling box.
Logan: Right. Because there are benefits for just going out in nature, the whole concept of like forest bathing, like breathing in the fresher air. You have the essential oils coming off the trees but an important part of that is actually the feeling of connection to the earth. But if people are just wearing normal shoes then they’re not getting that connection. But oftentimes when you’re hiking, you may be going over some rough terrain so having some sort of protection on your feet is quite useful to have rather than just actually going barefoot.
Mike: Yeah, I totally agree. I always describe it as expand your barefoot horizons. And one thing you kind of mentioned there that I wanted to touch on was like we tried to come up with something that has ultimate functionality. We got like minimal protection to where it’s not over-protecting the foot like you were describing earlier. I think you said it was a cast. Sometimes, I’d describe it as a foot. We’re allowing the foot to naturally articulate and do its thing by spreading out and not having an upper on the shoe and then also just having a good traction on the bottom. Like a bare foot does not have much traction on the bottom of the foot unless your toes are kind of digging into the earth. If you were walking on wet rocks barefoot, it’s pretty slippery but in Earth Runners, a lot of times you’ll have better traction with that. So it’s that traction component is pretty big time and you can also throw the five fingers into that situation like that whole discussion. By having those individual toe in little canals for the feet to sit in, yeah, I think that offers an extra layer of traction with that design on the shoe. I hope that makes sense.
Logan: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk about that because people are so used to wearing shoes, they don’t realize that—people that don’t use shoes or—let’s take this to an extreme—people that have lost the use of their arms, they actually can come to use their feet as well as many people use their hands. They can pick things up, they can manipulate keys and it all just comes with practice in using them. But since we don’t use our feet for anything besides walking and we put them in shoes all day long for the most part, the musculature of the feet, all that natural movement capability that is there just further atrophies and goes away. So the importance of allowing the feet to move freely, that also is another benefit with minimalist shoes. Can you mention that?
Mike: Yeah, certainly. The whole idea of use it or you lose it, that really rings true in this situation. There’s a word—I don’t know how to pronounce it. We have an article on our website somewhere and it reads something like dysafferentation. You may have heard it. It’s basically referring it to like your neurology. If you don’t use areas of your neurology in your body, whether that’s in your brain or anywhere in your body—there’s neurology throughout your entire body—and if you don’t use it, those circuits basically go dormant. You can apply that to all areas of your body, whether it’s how you use your feet and whether, or not you’re wearing minimalist shoes or not and how that affects the biomechanical action of your lower extremities. I feel like when you walk barefoot versus a super insulated shoe or a super cushioned shoe, your biomechanics change dramatically.
Imagine walking through a campsite at night with no light and you’re barefoot. You’re going to tippy-toe your way across the terrain because you don’t know what to expect and you’ve kind to got to feel your where. That’s kind of like an extreme example of what it’s like to be in minimal footwear like out on an actual trail but you have to pay more attention and that is going to totally change your experience mentally and also physically.
Logan: Absolutely. So a lot of these minimalist shoes, whether grounded or not, they came into popularity. The kind of Vibrams I guess was the first big one out there and this kind of came about because of Christopher McDougall’s Born to Run, right, and a lot of talk about native people being able to run really long distances and not having these three-inch thick Nike soles on their shoes. So can you talk about it? Something that’s important is people have oftentimes made a mistake like okay, they hear about this like okay, I’m going to start barefoot running and they’re trying to do the same distances they do before. Could you talk about what it takes to kind of ease into using minimalist shoes or going barefoot since most people have allowed their feet—they haven’t used them so they’ve kind of lost it but if they’re trying to do too much in the beginning that that can be problematic?
Mike: Yeah. It can kind of relate to people who also get into rock climbing. It’s like a slow process to kind of build up the endurance to be able to do something like that. If anybody has ever been to a rock climbing gym or just tried to rock climb outside for the first time ever, it’s like you get fatigued so fast and you get really, really sore. People say like the wisdom that comes from climbing is you want to really slowly ramp up and it’s not so much building strength in your muscles but also building strength in your tendons and connective tissue because that’s going to be the first thing to blow if you overdo it.
The same thing applies to minimal footwear. Your body is nowhere—and it really is also a factor of how long you’ve been in whatever footwear that you currently wear. If somebody is in their 30s or their 40s, I strongly encourage them to go with a thicker minimal sole and also slowly transition because it can be very dangerous. A lot of people get tendinitis. A lot of people get plantar fasciitis and those things are not fun because they can be like pesky injuries that take a while to heal because you’re always on your feet. So slowly working your way up, just listening to your body, I know that term gets used a lot but it never could be so true. I personally myself when I first started getting into running sandals, being an extreme person that I am I definitely overdid it and got both of those ailments that I just basically mentioned and it was a learning process for me. So I can speak from experience when I talk to people who are getting into this for the first time. It’s just like take it slow, work your way up.
A lot of times I’ll even encourage people if they’re going to be going on longer adventures outdoors or going with other people who aren’t wearing minimalist shoes, which is going to change the pace of the different people in the party, it’s nice to have like a backup pair of shoes that you’re already used to so you can switch out of your minimalist shoes if you’re out on a long distance and your feet are just killing you. So just slowly working your way up, even doing like calf, Achilles and foot exercises when you’re not out and about, these are all things that can help to mitigate the potential of getting some of those connective tissue injuries.
Logan: Yeah, I think that’s really important. When people think of working out, they think about muscles, not realizing that there are these other tissues involved, the tendons being some of them. The tendons kind of work in a longer timeframe than muscles, like muscles pretty quickly adapt. Tendons do it much slower which can be a drawback and like you were saying, you’ve got to ease into doing this slowly. But the good thing about that is once you have sort of strengthened those tendons, whether from actually using your feet or in other fashions then that’s going to stick around a bit longer even if you don’t do it all the time. So that’s some important stuff about tendons and that kind of applies to a lot of the strength training stuff that I do as well.
So let’s talk a little bit more about the Earth Runners specifically. Because there are a few other earth sandals or shoes out there, what sets the Earth Runners apart from those?
Mike: Like I was kind of describing earlier, it’s like a cross between a minimalist running sandal and also an earthing sandal. So if you look at those two subcategories, we have companies that do minimal running sandals and we have slight features that separate us from those people and then if you compare us with other earthing footwear companies, we have features that separate us from those different competitors out there, that being for earthing shoes or earthing sandals, I feel like I hadn’t seen anything else out there that has an adventure or an outdoor option. It’s mostly casual options, what they have. And I don’t think that’s the right application. Like I was kind of describing earlier, we like to liberate people and give them the ability to go out into nature where in my mind, that’s kind of the best place to connect. So that’s our standout feature from the earthing competitive standpoint.
And then from the minimal sandal standpoint, there are like these slight little differences here and there, one being we’ve got some cool, aethestically pleasing lacing color options which is nice. A lot of people have their own fashion perspective and they like to get something that fits them personally. So I like the fashion standout feature of ours in comparison to some of our competitors. We have a locking buckle that nobody else has and it offers more security in the long duration of like a trail hike where you don’t have to adjust your laces. It just kind of tucks away and it kind of goes unnoticed as far as our buckle in comparison to some other buckles out there.
And then finally, the way our laces harness to the actual sandal, all of what actually is out there they connect at the thong and then two connections on both the outside of the foot and the inside of the foot. We have a slightly unique anchor point on the inside of the foot where we have two slots going through the sandal as opposed to other minimal running sandals have one slot and that just kind of changes where the anchor point is pulling from. It kind of moves it closer to the midline of the foot allowing for more security. So just like those slight differences in comparison to other minimal sandal companies but we combine that with the earthing, it’s a pretty unique offering in comparison to what else is out there.
Logan: Yeah, I used to have an earthing pair of sandals from a different company that were just like flip-flops and I didn’t like those because really to use flip-flops, your toes kind of have to grab the thing that’s right between them, which was just kind of a little bit awkward. And then actually they had these plugs in the middle and after a bit of time, those had fallen out and I had lost them so I wasn’t even earthed anymore. So they weren’t the greatest things there.
Now I will say with your Earth Runners, it took a little bit of time getting used to them in the beginning. I don’t know what it was. It seemed to fit a little bit differently or I guess I wasn’t tightening them up enough and so it felt like sometimes they were just coming off. So any tips as far as really getting used to these? Because after I did use them for a little bit of time and I could actually cinched them in once I put them on then no problems. They weren’t falling off or anything. That was good to go. But it did take like a few attempts at wearing them before I felt like I got it.
Mike: Yeah, if you think about it like I was kind of saying a little bit further back, this design or what I actually designed has like literally been around for thousands of years so it really was not designed for the modern man, like super simple, super easy, like plug and play. There’s a little bit of a learning curve as far as getting to know the lacing or binding system. That’s the only thing holding your foot onto the sandal platform so there’s an infinite amount of adjustments that can be made. It’s hard to communicate that through like a paper handout that we send with the sandals so I actually encourage people to get on to our videos and watch because there’s so much more that can be communicated in those videos.
I think what most people do but yeah, it’s just getting the different straps dialed in. There’s basically the adjustment of the thong portion, the heel portion and then the ankle portion and all those can be set to different tensions. As you wear your laces over time, they’re probably going to stretch just the smallest amount and then also the sandals is going to continue to mold to the shape of your foot so that’s also going to kind of change the dimensions of how far the straps need to route around your foot so you’re going to need to adjust your laces a few times before they get settled in and they stop breaking in. So yeah, just a combination of being patient, continuing to adjust your straps until they settle into the right spot and then for guidance on that, watching some of our videos on how to adjust the laces.
Logan: Right. And how long can you expect a pair of Earth Runners to last? I guess it depends on the usage, right, but typically what do you see?
Mike: It really depends on your gait pattern and what surface you’re using your sandals on. We’ve gone through many different sole materials over the years and we just realized that for a minimal product, you go with the most high quality product out there which is the Vibram material, which is like the top soling company in the world based out of Italy. So that material, we have options that will range from 8 millimeters up to 12 millimeters. It’s surprising how long the sole lasts. I think it’s somewhere in the range of 500 to 700 miles for those soles. We have like a manufacturer warranty where if anything breaks on the sandal before you basically wear through the sole. We say if you have more than a millimeter of sole in the thinnest portion of the sole, it falls under warranty so if your laces were to ever break for whatever reason or your buckle, that’s all covered under warranty and we’ll take care of you.
That’s kind of one of the standout benefits of Earth Runners in comparison to other earthing sandal options out there. A lot of them are made overseas so they don’t have these really generous warranties because it’s a product that’s a reflection of me and in my lifestyle as a person and I will stand behind it 100%. I still have to meet somebody who I feel like enjoys the sandals more than I do. I love them. I wear them every day and it’s a constant evolution. So it’s always evolving and changing.
Logan: Well, that brings me to my next question. Do you always wear these sandals? Do you have other footwear at all that you wear? Do you find that sometimes a sandal is not appropriate? How often are you wearing these?
Mike: Yeah, like I was saying earlier I’m a little bit extreme. Before I was wearing the Earth Runners, I was wearing a lot of flip-flops. You touched on flip-flops. I personally don’t wear flip-flops anymore. The biomechanical factor of them is just totally something I can’t support or endorse and wear. But that being said, when I first heard about you guys I was just stoked to hear about another cool company like return to nature, like basically is this like—I would say the biggest thing that your company and our company has in common is we’re both based out of Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz is like a coastal town and it can get pretty cold and it can get pretty wet. Up until the beginning of this year, we were up in Santa Cruz and that was for two years in like a small workshop and it was like a rainforest up there. I pretty much wore the sandals the entire time. It was definitely a little extreme but I think there are some benefits to getting your body to adapt to these cooler environments. Like the whole idea of like cold thermogenesis or cold plunging which a lot of people are talking about these days, I think there are some benefits to that. We have like these pretty thick, wool tabi sock options that are not on the website right now but we have a new batch coming for this winter, which truly expands the season of the sandals.
But that being said, I do wear shoes sometimes and I’m glad you brought that up because we hear requests all the time. People are like you need to make earthing shoes. Being a US-based manufacturing company, we’re not willing to go overseas because it’s something that we can’t stand behind, it’s something that we don’t want to support so it was not an easy solution to come up with for earthing shoes. It’s really hard to make complete shoes in the States with competitive prices with all the features that we would want to offer so we were just like yeah, we’ll experiment with it but we couldn’t come up with anything that was satisfactory.
And then we kind of had the realization now that even if we could find something that was cost-effective and was quality enough, it’s going to be hard to please everybody with like a simple line of enclosed shoe options. So we were just like what if we gave people the ability to ground any pair of shoes that they already own? That seemed like the best option. It might not be for everybody because it is a little bit of a do-it-yourself type of project but yeah, this fall we’re going to be launching a do-it-yourself earthing kit, really affordable, costs like $30, $35 ship and you can ground any pair of shoes and it works just as good as our sandals. We’ve been beta testing that for about like the last 6 to 12 months. It’s going really well and I think it’s really good for a huge segment of the population. It’s not for everybody but it’s definitely going to suffice a lot of the requests that we’ve gotten for earthing shoes.
Logan: That’s very cool. I was not aware of that. I look forward to trying it out because I certainly wear some other shoes as well from time to time. One other question I had regarding it, you allow people to do custom foot traces but this isn’t required. So you can just basically get the standard model or you can submit your foot trace and thus get an Earth Runners customized for you. Can you talk a little bit about why someone would want to pick one option or how well does not doing the foot trace work for people?
Mike: I’m glad you asked that because I can break this down pretty simply. I’ve doing this for quite a few years and 90% of the population I think will fit really well into our standard sizes. They will be able to save themselves the extra $20 of getting a custom-made pair of sandals using a foot trace. The case where you’re going to want to get custom is if you have let’s say an extremely narrow foot or an extremely wide foot and I’m talking serious extremes like 5% of the population fits in that category, or you have really long or really short toes because if you have really long or short toes that’s going to throw off the standard location of the thong hold and your toes will either hang over the edge or you’d have a bunch of sandal in front of your toes which you don’t want for multiple reasons. If you thought you have something that might fall in one of those extremes like short or long toes or wide or narrow feet, you can confirm that by putting on our sizing templates, compare it with your foot then go from there.
Logan: Excellent. In realizing that these natural things have health benefits, lifestyle benefits and everything, how have you gone from being a student in San Diego and sitting down all day to working this sort of thing, getting out to nature more often into your lifestyle?
Mike: All right, so the thread that I’ve been kind of pursuing ever since my conventional stay at San Diego State and kind of veering off in this return to nature lifestyle, a lot of it seemed to be really based in science. I’ve always kind of been a big researcher on like what is at the cutting edge of health out there and a lot of it seemed to be stemming from the idea of like the ancestral life ways. You’ve just got to look at ancient tribes. What were they doing for thousands of years before the modern industrial revolution came in and kind of threw everything out of whack? So it’s just everything from my nature time to what I eat, to how I sleep, to my light exposure, to what I wear. It’s just everything revolving around like the lens of what our ancestors would be doing because that’s like a very good resource to kind of investigate. There are all these trends of diets and stuff like that that kind of come and go but if you look based on thousands and thousands of years of experience from these tribal cultures, they had a lot of things going right. So I think that answers your question. I’m not sure but that’s where I decided to take it.
Logan: Yeah, I’m right with you there. That’s kind of the foundational aspect, looking at how we humans evolved and what we have done for a long time and if it fits in alignment with that, then chances are it’s going to be a pretty healthy thing to do. Because I’m of the opinion that we’re meant to be healthy even late into life, like health is our natural thing. Having great energy, being able to move well, these are all natural things for us that we ought to have. Therefore if we’re just doing the right things that support that then we’re going to have that result. It’s not like we have to do superhuman things in order to have energy to get through our day.
Mike: Certainly. It’s just get out of our own way and just view it through a more simple lens. Just get your basics.
Logan: Right, like getting rid of the rubber soles that are blocking you from the earth so that you can enjoy less inflammation and such.
Mike: Yeah, man, the foundation of your health I like to call it.
Logan: Absolutely. Well, this has been great. I hope people found it very useful that are listening in and I definitely recommend that they check out the Earth Runners. Where would you like people to go to find more information?
Mike: Being a grass roots company, we have a strong social presence. We focus mostly on Instagram, @EarthRunners, so that would be a good place to check us out and just follow us and kind of see what we’re all about. We’re also working on like a new kind of like a lifestyle social following and it falls under Be Wild, Be Free. So I just encourage to check out both of those on Instagram.
Logan: Okay, excellent. And the website is EarthRunners.com?
Logan: Excellent and we’ll of course have links to all this and more over at the show notes on LostEmpireHerbs.com so be sure to go check that out there as well as a whole transcript of all this, probably a link to some of the videos that we were talking about as well.
Mike: Yes. By the way, I just wanted to mention I love what you guys are doing. I have been on a lot of your products for over a year and I just want to encourage you guys to keep going strong. This is really good stuff. I’m just stoked that another company like you guys in California.
Logan: Nice. Well, what’s your favorite herb or formula?
Mike: I haven’t really gotten into the formulas just because I like to kind of isolate and kind of see what’s working for me.
Logan: Yup, same way.
Mike: Yes. But I’d mix and match what I have. I really like the pine pollen, like you got the mega dose. That’s great to have around. The bacopa has been a new one that I’m experimenting with and I recently kind of discovered that you kind of need to go on like a higher dose with that one to really get a noticeable effect so I really like that. And then also shilajit of course is amazing stuff as well.
Logan: Got to have the destroyer of weakness and conqueror of man. Excellent. Well, thanks so much, Mike. I think this has been great and I think people are really going to get a kick out of it. This will help them get grounded, which is important for everyone.
Mike: I hope so, man. Just like take a step outside and go for a walk. That’s all I’m asking. It’s been a pleasure talking with you. Thanks a lot, Logan.
Logan: And thanks everyone for listening.
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